Rossi made the following comment on his blog:
Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
– In a 45 MW plant, if Siemens gives us 30% of efficiency, the COP is not 6, is infinite: the energy to drive the resistances will be made by the E-Cat: if we make 45 thermal MWh/h, 15 electric MWh/h will be made, of which 7.5 will be consumed by the plant, 7.5 will be sold, together with30 thermal MWh/h.
– The price of a 45 MW plant will be in the order of 30 millions.
– the price of the energy made by our industrial plants will be made by the owners and by the market.
Warm Regards,
A.R
To put the above into perspective, the following is a chart listing the power density of typical engine types:
Power density of typical engine types
combustion gas turbine 2.9 kg/kw
medium speed diesel 10 kg/kw
nuclear gas turbine (including shielding) 15 kg/kw
nuclear steam plant (including shielding) 54 kg/kw
A Rossi 45MW LENR power plant is estimated to weigh 200 tonnes (in other words about 180,000 kilograms). Since 45 megawatts is 45000 kilowatts (I always got marked down in math class when I didn’t show my work on the test, but just wrote down the answer), a Rossi 45MW LENR power plant yields a 4 kg/kw power density.
Furthermore, a nuclear plant averages about 1,000MW of heat, the heat generated by about 22 Rossi 45MW power plants. The cost of a 1,000MW nuclear plant is conservatively estimated to be around 2.4 billion dollars, while the cost of 22 Rossi E-Cat plants (at 30 million dollars each) is 660 million dollars – a little more than a third of the price! With no cost for nuclear fuel, no cost to clean up and get rid of the nuclear waste, and no risk of Fukushima type of accident!!
I think it is safe to say that the Rossi 45MW LENR power plant will be in heavy demand both by the maritime and utility industries. It is difficult to understand why both the US military and international corporations aren’t beating a path to Rossi’s door.
At the very least, you would think that the Japanese, who suffered terribly when their nuclear power plants (that furnish something like one third of Japan’s electricity) suffered catastrophic damage during the recent natural disasters, and who still suffer from the after-effects of the nuclear bombs dropped on their cities during WWII, would be intrigued by Rossi’s business plan.
If you like that computation, imagine what it is with Defkalion Hyperion, according to specifications :
temperature max 415C
COP >>20
with a unit cos of 5500Eur for a 45kW Hyperion, assuming a 33% efficiency (easy to do at 415C, much simpler than siemens multistage ORC turbine)
assuming maintenance at 200eur/y, and amortizing on 10y (cost of fuel is negligible)
I’ve reach a cos of 10Eur/MWH, thus 1/10 of todays nuclear.
if you use top turbine like siemens’s, and modify the Hyperion so they can reach 650C (like it seems that the core can accepts, since this is the max working allowed for proposed test), you can even imagine better efficiency (above 60%) and lower cost…
however maybe increasing the efficiency is not usefull, since the cost of LENR is mostly investment and maintenance, and increasing temperature increase maintenance, and increasing efficiency increase investment…
there should exist an engineering compromise point.
Good points Brad. Although I think Rossi will be focused on making the 10kW home heating and power plants for a while. He might want to license production rights to Siemens or another turbine maker. Large format power transmission will become an old format slowly dismantled as localized district and distributed energy is installed. The need for centralized power is greatly reduced by distributed energy made in single and multi-family residences.
With so many parties now at work on consumer LANR products – we can expect to be able to choose from a variety of models and performance characteristics. The boon to economies world wide will raise standards of living for billions of human beings.
Dear all,I apologize for my bad English. I am a one eractor physicist of one Nuclear Power Plant. I have 20 years experience with fission reaction processes. The main problem of LENR technology is “How to break down the Coulomb barrier in order to get proton (H+ ion) to the nuclei”. Up to now only two theories are existing, Widom-Larsen theory (WLT) and Bose-Einstein Condensation theory (BECT). WLT create ULM-neutron to pass through Coulomb barrier. ULM-neutron is more or less immobile. According to 1/v law his microscopic effective cross section for absorption is infinite. He does not have any problem to penetrate into target nuclei. BECT combine two fermions (protons) with bd spin to the one boson (2p[S=0]) with neutral spin. This “mystic particle” can exist in the same time and in the same place together with other nuclei, so can penetrate Coulomb barrier as well. With BECT you can get two protons into the target nuclei. Unfortunately any of these two theories is proven yet. Despite my classic fission background I believe that LENR is working and will kill all NPPs in the near future. Now something about E-CAT: I thing that recent efficiency of the E-CAT equal 6, is insufficient for the effective electricity producing. I think that Andrea Rossi and his staff do not fully understanding all processes which are enacted inside of E-CAT. At that time they only observe the heat output and they are trying to guess how to improve E-CAT construction via “attempt-mistake” approach. The right solution is waiting for some clever man (like George Miley) who will bring an exact and right theory. Only on the base of correct theory we will be able to increase LENR efficiency up to theoretical level 200-400. I believe that this time is approaching.
Anybody got an Alpha unit up and running yet? Thought not!
I have tested new equipment and the Alpha units are run at rated power until something goes POP then you fix it and run it again. You keep fixing things that go POP until there are no more POPS then you put all the fixes in the BATA unit and put 8 or so into customer use. Then if all goes well you start taking orders and get production going.
Conjector is that all is well in Ecat Land.
With warm regards and
Electrfying anticipation…
or not…
Engineering is minutely just barely hardly yet begun in regards to the micro physics that leads to a slew of yet to be realised LENR reactions.
Direct heavy electron flow… High intensity x-rays… Heavy gamma… are a few of the yet to be revealed very real potential HIGH ENERGY possibilities of fledgling LENR science.
To Andrea Rossi,
Sir,
I invite you to try your invention in the circumstances of Figure 3 of Belgian patent (lapsed)
translated into English under the heading Belgian LANR Patents published on e-Cat Site.
Probably when using the electrode system in the gas loading you can ommit the heating resistance.
Best wishes,
Jan
Mr. Rossi has prolonged problems with basic school grade mathematic.
He doesn’t understand difference between 30% and 33% efficiency of turbine Siemens.
He need 50 MW of thermal energy for 15 MW turbine with 30% efficiency.
He is erroneously thinking that he need 45 MW only.
45 MW x 30% efficiency is not 15 MW
Dear all,
I apologize for my bad English. I am a one reactor physicist of one Nuclear Power Plant. I have 20 years experience with fission reaction processes. The main problem of LENR technology is “How to break down the Coulomb barrier in order to get proton (H+ ion) to the nuclei”. Up to now only two theories are existing, Widom-Larsen theory (WLT) and Bose-Einstein Condensation theory (BECT). WLT create ULM-neutron to pass through Coulomb barrier. ULM-neutron is more or less immobile. According to 1/v law his microscopic effective cross section for absorption is infinite. He does not have any problem to penetrate into target nuclei. BECT combine two fermions (protons) with ½ spin to the one boson (2p[S=0]) with neutral spin. This “mystic particle” can exist in the same time and in the same place together with other nuclei, so can penetrate Coulomb barrier as well. With BECT you can get two protons into the target nuclei. Unfortunately any of these two theories is proven yet. Despite my classic fission background I believe that LENR is working and will kill all NPPs in the near future. Now something about E-CAT: I thing that recent efficiency of the E-CAT equal 6, is insufficient for the effective electricity producing. I think that Andrea Rossi and his staff do not fully understanding all processes which are enacted inside of E-CAT. At that time they only observe the heat output and they are trying to guess how to improve E-CAT construction via “attempt-mistake” approach. The right solution is waiting for some clever man (like George Miley) who will bring an exact and right theory. Only on the base of correct theory we will be able to increase LENR efficiency up to theoretical level 200-400. I believe that this time is approaching.