Rossi – Defkalion : The Split Remains

Andrea Rossi
August 12th, 2011 at 3:05 AM
Dear H. Visscher:
Again, and for the last time:
IT IS TOTALLY FALSE THAT WE AND DEFKALION ARE TOGETHER AGAIN.
THE PRESS RELEASE THAT HAS BEEN PUBLISHED BY EFA SRL ON AUGUST 6TH 2011 HAS ALREADY EXPLAINED THE SITUATION.
WE WILL NOT RETURN ON THIS ISSUE.

This comes from – http://ecatnews.com/?p=701 (Original link below)

It appeared on the surface, and through translation, that yesterday perhaps Andrea Rossi and Defkalion were back together according to Greek media.

But looking closer at the content of what was said and the history of clever word play and detachment tactics which Defkalion employs, coupled with no confirming statements from Rossi, there were still major question marks whether they really were back together.

According to the above entry  from Rossi which originated here – http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=501&cpage=12#comment-61210  nothing has changed, and The Split Remains.

As our own Ruby has been road tripping, and spending the last few days in Salt Lake City, at the university where the controversy turned drama more or less began, isn’t it something that 20 plus years later, the Song Remains the Same.

As a comment in the above thread says:

Utterly fascinating …. Expect annoucements, denunciations, red herrings, partnerships made and broken….who needs to watch the soaps, this is miles better!

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4FvKM29TqU&w=425&h=349]

Greek Media: Rossi and Defkalion back together

Greek television Channel 6 is reporting that Andrea Rossi and Defkalion Green Technologies have patched things up, and Defkalion is proceeding with its plans to establish a power plant in Xanthi, Greece:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjN-xl69V44]

The news clip contains an interview with Defkalion CEO Alexandros Xanthoulis. A full translation of the interview in English does not appear to be available yet, but commenter Peter Roe has provided the following translation (with the help of Google translate) of the news story text on the web page in a comment on the Pure Energy Systems Network:

The process of establishing a power plant in Xanthi that uses hydrogen-nickel fusion continues, as the problems that seemed to exist between the inventor and the company undertaking the building of this plant have been overcome, and everything will now continue as originally planned.

Clouds have been seen in recent days in relations between the inventor of the device producing energy from hydrogen-nickel fusion, Andrea Rossi, and Defkalion Green Technologies, the company which is planning to install the relevant equipment for the power plant in Xanthi. Andrea Rossi, in his recent statement, talked about suspending cooperation with the Greek company Defkalion, and of turning to a big company in the U.S. instead. But as in all dramas, the crisis in relations between the inventor and the company has been overcome, and arrangements are now progressing normally.

Channel 6 contacted the the CEO of Defkalion, Mr Ksanthoulis, who makes it clear that Mr. Rossi has every right to cooperate with the US company since their agreement does not prohibit it. However, what is important is that any problems are overcome and the investment proceeds as originally planned.

In closing Mr. Xanthoulis attributed all this disruption to the pressures on both Defkalion and on Mr Rossi, who according to Mr. Xanthoulis, was more vulnerable to such pressure.

Thanks, Peter! And thanks also to PESN commenter PGreen, who apparently found the news report.

If true, this is certainly good news for Defkalion. The phrase “everything will now continue as originally planned” would seem to indicate that the October demonstration will take place in Xanthi, but in a recent response to a question regarding the demonstration on his website, Rossi gave no indication of any change in his recent decision to hold the demonstration in the United States. The statement in the news story may mean nothing more than that Rossi will allow Defkalion to use his E-Cat technology in their Hyperion units, as originally planned. However, Rossi has not as yet confirmed the report.

UPDATE:

Andrea Rossi has made a statement on the matter which fortunately needs no translation:

Dear Sterling Allan:
It is totally false that EFA srl has cured the agreement with Defkalion. There is nothing at all to add to the press release already published the last week (August 6th 2011).
This answer is valid also for many other Readers who have asked us the same thing.
Andrea Rossi

Another mystery. A miscommunication, a mistranslation, or something more intentional? Whatever the case may be, I have a feeling Mr. Xanthoulis isn’t done speaking to the press, even if he wishes he were.

Professor Christos Stremmenos Response to SPLIT

Here is a PDF response comment/statement from a few days ago, from Professor Christos Stremmenos on the split between ROSSI and DEFKALION.

Stemmenos is the Greek scientist who brought Cold Fusion to Greece and worked with the government to set up the manufacturing of E-Cats there.

This seems to be a translation, and maybe in the comments someone can make a translation from the translation on their thoughts on what is being expressed here.

http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3229673.ece/BINARY/Letter+fr+Prof+Christos+Stremmenos+%28pdf%29

Defkalion Response To Split : E-Cats VS Hyperions?

Defkalion Green Technologies responded, somewhat, to the split between themselves and Andrea Rossi. Actually they seemed to not respond at all to the split itself, but rather they set to distance, or differentiate themselves from Rossi (while still stating “strong support” towards him) by establishing that their own device is called the HYPERION, and this is actually the “final product”, whereas the E-CAT, was really a “lab prototype system”, even though as they state, the reactor is the same for both, and everything has been based on “standards, specifications and designs provided and approved by Andrea Rossi himself.”

They go on in their response letter to make a list of the differences between the E-CAT and the HYPERION.

They state they aim to completely clear the air and set the record straight in response to all the recent digital environment chatter, as they state the “online spasmodic reactions, accusations and falsities”.

But they fail to address the fact that these accusations and so called falsities we’re brought on by their own partner, Andrea Rossi.

Instead they continue to use the tag line of “support for Rossi”, while blatantly pretending that Rossi’s heavy accusation of betrayal doesn’t even exist. Instead it seems perpetuating the idea that this recent drama has just risen mysteriously from internet land, and Defkalion and Rossi together, have fallen victims huddled in the same boat.

And they fail to address “the key issue of contention” as Hank Mills points out in his response letter.

That letter and the Defkalion response statements can be seen here at Pure Energy Systems – http://pesn.com/2011/08/10/9501891_Defkalion_Responds_in_Support_of_Rossi/

Krivit’s third report: E-Cat not demonstrated to work as claimed

Steven Krivit, editor of New Energy Times, has released his third report on Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat, and the report is every bit as long as he had claimed. The report is largely critical of the claims made for the energy catalyzer, and of the way Andrea Rossi, Sergio Focardi, and Giuseppe Levi have attempted to establish those claims. Although most of the criticisms have been made elsewhere, Krivit has helpfully (for those critical of Rossi’s claims, at least) provided a clearinghouse for them.

Krivit’s report includes 37 appendices, but the essence of his criticism is contained in his main report:

The first concern is a question of the quantity of the steam. That is, how much steam has been visually observed coming out of the experiments? How does this amount and rate compare with the predicted amount and rate of steam from a 5 kilowatt power source?

The second concern is the method the Rossi group used to measure (or fail to measure) the output of the experiment. How did the group perform the measurement of the heat outflow, or steam, in the experiments?

The third concern is the quality of the steam. A higher-quality (or drier) steam output contains far more heat than a lower-quality (or wetter) steam. How did the Rossi group measure (or fail to measure) the quality of the steam coming out of the experiments?

None of these concerns is likely to be resolved before the demonstration in the last week of October (according to Rossi’s current timeline), and it is questionable if Rossi’s demonstration will directly answer those concerns, or if it will leave them for buyers of E-Cat technology to answer to their satisfaction. In an answer to a question by Prof. Brian Josephson concerning that matter on his website, Rossi emphasized that many important scientists and journalists would attend the test, and insisted that the E-Cat is producing perfectly dry steam in recent tests, but did not answer Prof. Josephson’s point about measuring the water and/or steam output of the reactor.

There seems to be a general agreement among both optimists and skeptics of a technical bent that this is an important weakness of Rossi’s demonstrations so far. One section of Krivit’s report concerns a presentation Francesco Celani delivered at the 16th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science (ICCF-16) in Chennai, India, in February of this year. A diagram in this presentation pointed out the importance, when testing a black box (i.e. a device the internals of which are unknown), of measuring all inputs and outputs. In Rossi’s demonstrations, on the other hand, he measured the inputs (water and electrical power) and presumed to measure the temperature inside the black box itself (unnecessary when one is attempting to demonstrate simply that the black box functions), but failed to measure the output (steam and/or water).

The arguments supporting Krivit’s claim that the E-Cat achieves an energy gain of only one or two times input power are contained in the appendices to the main report. Krivit does not deny the possibility of achieving excess heat from nickel-hydrogen reactions and emphasizes that he has covered the field on various occasions before. His criticism here is of Andrea Rossi and his collaborators. He does not directly accuse Rossi of devising a hoax or a scam, but he mentions several ways (private investment, purchase of franchises from Defkalion) in which money has presumably already changed hands, and therefore a scam is possible, whether or not it is probable.  Regarding the charge, made more or less openly by both Andrea Rossi and Daniele Passerini (link is in Italian), that Krivit is in cahoots with Francesco Piantelli, Krivit does not address it directly, but says in his report: “I have not seen Piantelli for a few years, but I have been in touch with him recently to confirm the history of his research.”

Perhaps most interesting, because it’s news, is the last section of Krivit’s report, which confirms Rossi’s meeting with members of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, and identifies Michael A. Nelson as the man who arranged the meeting. According to Nelson, as reported by Krivit, Rossi made no demonstration and no agreement had yet been made between Rossi and NASA, but NASA is interested in testing Rossi’s device as long as the government doesn’t have to foot the bill. Nelson is eager to find out the truth about Rossi’s device, whatever it may be. These words from him are worth quoting here:

Rossi has brought a lot of attention to the field. Any researchers who have a legitimate claim are going to benefit from this.

Whatever else he may be, it appears Andrea Rossi is a catalyst of sorts.

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Related posts:

Mr. Rossi talks E-Cat. — Ruby Carat June 21, 2011

Mr. Rossi calculates the E-Cat’s energy — Ivy Matt June 24, 2011

Krivit’s second report: Rossi evades scientific debate — Ivy Matt June 28, 2011

Coming soon: Krivit’s third report — Ivy Matt July 29, 2011

Coming soon: Krivit’s third report

After a month of reticence, New Energy Times editor Steven Krivit has broken his silence to announce that his long-awaited third report on Rossi’s E-Cat is coming soon—”within the next few days”. This report is supposed to cover the technical details supporting his reasoning that the E-Cat—the one Rossi demonstrated for him, at any rate—does not produce as much energy as Rossi claims it does. Rossi calculated an energy gain factor of 6 for that particular demonstration. In a recent post on New Energy Times, Krivit estimated that the energy gain was at most one or two times, and that possibly there was no excess energy at all.

The primary reason Krivit gives for the delay is that he received numerous comments—more than 50—on his videos and reports, some from people of apparently great technical knowledge. Consequently, he decided to incorporate some of these comments in his report. After releasing his third report, Krivit will release the videos of his interviews with Andrea Rossi, Sergio Focardi, Giuseppe Levi, University of Bologna physicist David Bianchini (who has performed various measurements on the E-Cat), and blogger Daniele Passerini (who has covered the E-Cat story since the beginning). Lastly, Krivit will write a final report giving some of his reflections and observations on the story, and then he will move on to other things—”until and unless [Rossi] and/or his associates make an appropriate scientific communication or deliver a publicly available energy device for sale.”

So far Rossi and his E-Cat have been the big news in cold fusion this year; otherwise cold fusion enthusiasts would probably be spending their time discussing Brian Ahern’s replication of Arata (not so much of Rossi, as some have reported—Rossi’s device is not really replicable by independent researchers until more is revealed about the details of its functioning). It looks like Krivit’s third report will add new detail, but not much new information to the E-Cat debate, so whether Andrea Rossi ends up being seen as the savior of cold fusion or a pariah even among the small community of cold fusion researchers probably depends mostly on the outcome of his megawatt thermal reactor demonstration three (not four) months away, and the subsequent sales of the devices by Defkalion GT and AmpEnergo.

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Related posts:

Mr. Rossi talks E-Cat. — Ruby Carat June 21, 2011

Mr. Rossi calculates the E-Cat’s energy — Ivy Matt June 24, 2011

Krivit’s second report: Rossi evades scientific debate — Ivy Matt June 28, 2011

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