Andrea Rossi interview of March 12, 2012

 The following is a further posting in a series of articles by David French, a patent attorney with 35 years experience, which will review issues of interest in the field of Cold Fusion.

On March 12, 2012 Ruby Carat of ColdFusionNow personally interviewed Andrea Rossi in his home in Florida. That interview is available in video format on the ColdFusionNow.org website. [watch] The following is a summary of some of the significant remarks made by Sr Rossi during this interview.

In the last 2 years Rossi has changed his theory as to what’s happening. He’s filed a patent application for the new idea. It’s not yet published.

He is still using a powder. He does so because it has more surface area, more contact with hydrogen. He believes that surface area is important for the reaction so that the hydrogen will be able to access active sites on the nickel. And he still has to preheat the reactor which he does using electricity to increase the temperature.

He believes that when the cold fusion reaction is occurring within the particles, temperatures as high as 1500°C are being reached deep in the active matrix. He recognizes that this is getting close to the melting point of nickel, but that’s OK: if the nickel were to melt it would stop the reaction. This is a safety effect.

Even though he believes he’s getting such high temperatures in the core of the active regions, he’s only achieving output temperatures of 110-200°C. He cannot deliver steam over 200°C (This is still very, very valuable!)

Recently Siemens has introduced a turbine that operates with 30% efficiency operating off a heat source at 251°C (or 261°C). Using this turbine, Rossi will be able to generate all the electricity that he needs to make his process continue indefinitely. As a system, it will be self-contained. It’s not clear whether the Siemens turbine can produce 15 MW, but he used that as an example.

He also answered “Yes!” in response to a question as to whether his system is capable of operating in a “self-sustainable” mode.

Rossi has, for safety reasons, eliminated the external hydrogen tank. His reactor now includes a source of hydrogen bound in molecules contained in a “tablet” which is sealed in the reactor. It is this tablet which releases the necessary hydrogen for the cold fusion reaction. It is this feature which is the focus of his most recent unpublished patent application.

Once the cold fusion reaction stops, the hydrogen is recovered back into the tablet where it is either chemically stored or re-fixed somehow, available for future use. During the cold fusion reaction only a slight amount of hydrogen is consumed: pico-grams. The result is that his reactor will have a six-month lifetime without having any need for refurbishing.

His biggest barrier has been having the system certified for safety. He received great resistance to safety certification as long as he had been using an external bottle of hydrogen as the hydrogen source. The new tablet arrangement has overcome this problem. He is awaiting certification for safety and will be on the market as soon as he receives that certification.

He says that his units are under production presently. But where this is occurring is a big secret. He doesn’t want his Manufacturers hounded by cold fusion enthusiasts.

Actual products are not being manufactured at this time. The “lines” of production are being assembled, and the computer software being programmed. Actual manufacturing of the E-Cat will begin after certification as there will most likely be more design changes during the certification process.

Asked why his industrial units were to be more expensive than commercial home units, said to be delivering power at a cost of $60-$90 per kilowatt, he said that the industrial units were more of a “craft” product at this time: less parts ordered cost more. The industrial units were being produced in low-volume whereas the price quoted for home units was based on a theoretical high volume level of production.

The interview lasts for a total of 29 minutes.

David French is a retired patent attorney and the principal and CEO of Second Counsel Services. Second Counsel provides guidance for companies that wish to improve their management of Intellectual Property. For more information visit: www.SecondCounsel.com.

David French is prepared to address questions included as commentaries to any of his postings or by direct email. In particular, he would like to learn what people need to know in order to better understand patents.

Cold Fusion Is Back! – CERN Webinar on Cold Fusion, March 22, 2012

The following is a further posting in a series of articles by David French, a patent attorney with 35 years experience, which will review patents of interest touching on the field of Cold Fusion.

March 23, 2012 –One would think that the above title should be a headline in the newspapers following a live webcast originating from CERN in Geneva on March 22, 2012.  This CERN Colloquium entitled: “Overview of Theoretical and Experimental Progress in Low Energy Nuclear Reactions – LENR” was presented by Drs Francesco Celani and Yogendra Srivastava. Dr Celani is an Italian physicist at the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics, Frascati National Laboratories, Italy and the Vice-President of the International Society of Condensed Matter. Dr Srivastava is an emeritus professor of physics at Indiana University in the U.S.

Program:  (slides and video at bottom of screen)

These two scientists have devoted their careers to studying the phenomena originally announced by Pons & Fleischmann in 1989 and discredited in the media and amongst the community of nuclear physicists in the years following.  But, as the speakers confirmed, there are still 1000 researchers around the world who have been studying the phenomena of: “unexplained excess heat” and they have produced results that irrefutably indicate that something real is happening.

Professor Srivastava addressed his preferred theory as to the source of the unexplained excess heat.  He was clear that it had to be nuclear and argued that it arose from a weak force effect.  Essentially, he supported the Widom & Larsen theory that neutrons can be formed in a solid matter matrix by the capture of an electron by a proton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_capture

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=229479

This presumably requires overcoming a 780 KeV energy barrier based on the mass difference between the neutron and the combined masses of a proton and an electron.  But once a neutron is formed, it’s available to carry-out all sorts of nuclear reactions, including transmutations of available background metals in the crystal lattice and the conversion of hydrogen or deuterium nuclei trapped in the crystal lattice into tritium, helium 3 or helium 4.  These processes result in the releasing of substantial amounts of heat.

Professor Srivastava did not address the alternate theory, originally proposed by Pons and Fleischmann, that the source of unexplained energy was arising from the fusion of two deuterium nuclei trapped in a metal lattice.  The prospect remains that this process may still be occurring.

“D-D fusion produces a 2.45 MeV neutron and helium-3 half of the time, and produces tritium and a proton but no neutron the other half of the time. D-3He fusion produces no neutron.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron

Arguing against the proposition that D-D fusion is occurring deep in the host crystal lattice is the evidence that apparently indicates that the low energy nuclear reaction effect – LENR tends to occur on the surfaces of active metals such as Palladium and Nickel. 

On the other hand, Professor Peter Hagelstein from MIT, who continues to defend the deuterium fusion concept, has argued, with some effect, that if helium is the resulting material that forms through fusion at critical vacancies in a metal lattice, then the accumulation of helium can choke-back the reaction by plugging the vacancies. However, helium formed near a surface has an opportunity to defuse out of the metal lattice, freeing up the vacancies in the same region to continue the LENR effect.  Hence even the deuterium fusion theory can fit with the observed phenomena that high surface area contributes to the production of excess heat.

The original experiments done by Pons and Fleischmann produced excess heat on the order of 10-20%.  That is, for every unit of electricity consumed in the electrolysis experiments that they were running, the driving of deuterium onto/into Palladium, an additional 20% of heat was appearing in the system.  A problem with results of this nature is that the measurement of an excess heat of only 20% requires careful instrumentation.  A great deal of criticism was made of the calorimetric procedures followed by Pons and Fleischmann.  However, Professor Celani produced data on experiments in the 20 years following 1989 that show heat gains in excess of 50% to 200% and, on occasion, infinite, in the sense that heat was produced even though no electricity was being run through the reaction vessel.

A lot of the objections to the demonstration of the production of excess heat would necessarily be met if it could be reliably shown that heat gains in excess of 100% are being achieved.  Errors in actually measuring the precise amount of excess heat would then be irrelevant.

There are a number of Golden Goals that one would like to see achieved if the LENR effect is to become the gift to humanity that many believers insist is possible.  The critical parameters are:

1. Gain. If electricity or another energy source is needed to precipitate an LENR effect, then gain has to be significant.  It costs 3 calories of thermal energy to generate 1 calorie of electrical energy.  This means that the gain, if electricity must be used, has to be at least 300%.  Gain is important.

2. Power. Power is important because if the phenomenon collapses at higher power rates, then this energy generation source will never be of service to mankind.  Instead, it will be a curiosity.  It is known that a pair of deuterium nuclei can be made to fuse by introducing a Muon in place of an electron in orbit around at least one of a pair of deuterium nuclei.  This is called a “muon catalyzed fusion“.

This produces heat by way of fusion.  But Muons are extremely difficult to generate and have a very short half-life.  The phenomenon is interesting but it’s not likely to be useful to produce power at any relevant level of interest to human society.  Test results shown by Professor Celani indicate results, by solid scientific researchers, in which energy is being generated at rates up to on the order of 20-50 W.  This is promising.  The claims by Andrea Rossi and Defkalion that they are producing energy at the rates in excess of 1 kW are suspect as they are not been scientifically evaluated and proven.  But more than trivial power has been produced. Power is important.

3. Temperature. Temperature is important because of the Carnot principle.  If you’re going to generate work using thermalized energy, then the Carnot theorem sets a limit on the proportion of thermal energy that can be converted to work.  Electricity is equivalent to work energy.  The Carnot formula depends on the temperature difference existing between a heat source and a heat sink.  Thus the maximum energy, the absolute theoretical maximum, that can be extracted from a heat source at 273°C using ice at 0°C as a sink is 50%. 

Typical power generation stations that burn coal, gas or oil rely on temperatures in excess of 800°C and have difficulty achieving efficiencies in excess of 40%.  Many of the experimental tests done in the past were carried-out in electrolytic cells that contained water or heavywater.  Only modest temperature increases were being measured, and the presence of water set an upper limit on any temperature increase that could be created.  More recent experiments in the gas phase have actually been running at 300°C, 400°C and experiments have been attempted by Professor Celani at temperatures as high as 900°C.  Achieving high temperatures will be extremely relevant to providing mankind with inexpensive electrical power.  Temperature is important.

4. Duration. The duration of the unexplained excess energy effect has been the bane of most researchers.  Generally, it has taken a long time to turn-on an LENR effect. And then in most cases the effect has only lasted for a limited period of time, in some cases only minutes.  However, more recent tests have demonstrated a heat generation duration of many days, sometimes weeks.  To be an effective source of energy the active materials have to be able to continue to produce energy beyond a trivial short interval.  Accepting that a nuclear effect is the source of the energy, the prospects for extended periods of heat generation are theoretically possible.  The amount of heat that can be provided through nuclear effects is enormous. Technology must resolve the issue of how to sustain an LENR reaction over an extended period of time.  Duration is important.

5. Control.  From the beginning and even today, the turning-on of an LENR effect has been a sometimes proposition.  Apart from the extended delays that are required before the effect appears, it’s not even clear whether the effect is precipitated by:

– electric current passing through a host crystal LENR environment

– the presence of an electric field applied to the LENR environment

– oscillations in such an electric field

– magnetic fields, whether static or oscillating

– thermal energy present in the form of vibrations present in the host atom nuclei forming a crystal matrix; in electrons present in the crystal matrix, possibly in the conduction band or otherwise; or in protium/deuteron nuclei nesting at critical locations in the crystal matrix

All of these effects represent “handles” by which a low energy nuclear reaction might be controllable.  Ideally, controls should exist to not only turn-on an LENR event but also to adjust its rate, including preventing runaway, and allowing for shutdown.  Control is important.

Professor Celani indicated that in one of the experiments that had been carried-out a heat flux of 1500 W per gram of Palladium was achieved.  This compares favorably with the heat flux at the core of the sun:

“At the center of the sun, fusion power is estimated by model to be about 276.5 watts/m3, [2] a power production density which more nearly approximates reptile metabolic heat generation than it does a thermonuclear bomb. [3] Peak power production in the Sun’s center, per volume, has been compared to the volumetric heats generated in an active compost heap.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_core

 A key comment in the presentation by Professor Celani addressed the effect of loading of the metal lattice.  It has been known that as hydrogen is forced into a nickel or palladium lattice, the electrical resistance of the lattice initially rises, but then falls after a loading ratio of approximately 0.7:1 is passed.  Thereafter, approaching a loading of approximately 1:1 the resistance can drop by 50% from its peak.  Information on the effects of loading beyond this limit is not readily available.  But Professor Celani did observe that the observation of the appearance of excess energy appears uniquely associated with loadings in this negative resistance region.

The suggestion is that loading is a critical parameter for these phenomena to occur.  Any technology which could generate high loadings and maintain high loadings over time could be key to a practical application of the LENR effect.

Post presentation questions

After the speakers had concluded their remarks, questions were invited from the audience.  One particularly persistent questioner insisted repeatedly that the numerous failed attempts by scientists to replicate the ColdFusion effect following the Pons and Fleischmann announcement in 1989 should be given as much weight as the more recent identification of concrete, incontrovertible, excess energy experiments from numerous sources around the world.  The relevance of this objection can be compared to the example of announcing to children at a birthday party that there is a special treasure source of gold foil covered chocolates to be found somewhere in the house.  The children proceed to effect an exhaustive treasure hunt throughout the house.  Many many children come back reporting that no such gold coin chocolates have been found.  But a few report that, while they didn’t find the treasure source itself, they did find some sample chocolate coins which they then place on the table. 

Would it be appropriate to argue in these circumstances that a treasure source does not exist?  Unfortunately, the style of this questioner has predominated in the general physics community since 1989.

Watch Yogendra Srivastava video and slide presentation

Watch Antonio Celani video and slide presentation

Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons In Their Own Words

Twenty-three years ago on March 23, 1989 Dr. Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons made an announcement of their astounding discovery of a new form of energy then dubbed cold fusion.

One of the first scientific discoveries born of the modern mass media, the world buzzed with fax machines and satellite TV as scientists dropped what they were doing to try to reproduce their results. A deceptively simple apparatus was more difficult to handle than thought, and very brilliant people became brilliantly emotional at their inability to accomplish the Fleischmann-Pons Effect FPE.

Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons were since abandoned by their universities and disowned by their colleagues. They have yet to be recognized for their work by mainstream science even as, more than two decades later, independent labs are close to developing a commercial technology that could change the future of humanity.

We honor these two Lions of Science who had the courage to face the unknown with honesty and integrity. Sirs, you have no peers!

These videos are from the MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour of that day, when the pair were interview by journalist Charlayne Hunter-Gault. They come compliments of the New Energy Foundation which provides direct support to new energy researchers and was founded by Eugene Mallove, an early defender intellectual honesty and a champion for those scientists who were shut out from the community they so loved.


Brillouin Energy “Quantum Fusion” Animations


Robert E. Godes is the man behind Brillouin Energy, a company developing a hot-water boiler based on cold fusion. But he doesn’t stop at experimentalist; he is also the originator of Quantum Fusion Theory, a theory of the atomic and nuclear events that comprise the reaction. Published in Infinite Energy #82, you can download a copy here.

Recently released animations seek to visualize the phenomenon.
Four videos have been uploaded to the new QuantumFusionChannel on YouTube.

Ain’t nuthin like a video to help imagine a dense, clean, and safe new energy technology.

Related Links

Funding dam almost breaks for Brillouin Boiler that uses – water! by Ruby Carat July 7, 2011

1913 Hot Water Boilers


Peruse the advertisements for hot water boilers from an old 1913 Architectural Digest. These conveniences were a new technology for the public as the century started. As this century begins, we may see the emergence of a new technology to last a millennium.

01-Ruud Manufacturing
People in 1913 are exhilarated to have the convenience of gas-heated water in their homes. Cold fusion technology can take accommodation to a new level by offering the convenience of personal power production without any grid-ties.
02-Kriebel System
The Vapor Vacuum Heating Company prided themselves in their simple design - which came with a primer. The perplexing nature of the cold fusion reaction is in contrast to the relatively simple design of the technology based on hydrogen and small pieces of metal like nickel.
03-Craig Boilers
Craig Boilers and Richardson Boilers - maximum service at minimum cost. Clean energy based on hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe, makes cold fusion technology the viable alternative energy and the economical one.
04-Pierce Spence
New designs are important for the Pierce Spence Water Boiler. Emergin cold fusion technology is in its infancy, and will go through many design changes throughout the decades, and centuries.
05-Kewanee
The Kewanee Firebox Boiler highlights the safety of the design.
06-Honeywell Heating
Honeywell Heating provides dependable and economical heating service for apartment tenants. Cold fusion technology engenders a new economy allowing individuals new opportunities for living on Earth.

Cold Fusion Now Exclusive Video with Andrea Rossi


Cold Fusion Now shot a 30-minute video interview with Andrea Rossi Friday March 2, while chatting with the inventor in his Miami Beach, Florida office.

The office was furnished with the standard office hardware, but complemented with a couch and dining table for comfort. There were books everywhere. Mr. Rossi is a serious reader, consuming all kinds of material from fiction to science. Knowing he has been a jazz drummer, and is currently without a set, we brought him a green ceramic doumbek to play when he needs it.

Our first question was about the source of the heat in the E-Cat.

“The source of the heat are the radiations that are emitted as an effect when hydrogen and nickel in the presence of catalyzers react. We have a precise idea about the effect and the source of it. And they wrote a theory, but I am waiting until the patents are granted to describe the theory because the theory is strictly connected with the technology. We learned the theory from the technology and learned the technology from the starting theory.”

“What I can say now is that I changed very much my ideas in these last two years. Two years ago I thought that the E-Cat worked upon an effect that has been described, but now I have changed ideas in good part, and I think we have discovered very well the source of the effect. I think we have understood very well why the E-Cat works.”

At the end of the interview he responds to a question about his factory stating “I will not tell you where is my factory – not even under torture!

“The fact is, all the times that I gave information about the name of a customer or the the name of a supplier, the poor guys have been submerged by tens of thousands of inopportune contacts. You can imagine under a safety point of view what the risk can be if we give in this moment the address where we are working. When it will be in operation, it will be impossible to make it hidden. But for now, we want to work in peace.”

Mr. Rossi continued,

“The robotized line is already under construction. The factory will be in the United States of America, the E-Cat will be a Made In The USA product, both in the industrial and the domestic version.”

“The day when we will start the production is also bound to the day when we will be certified.”

“I am sure that Underwriter Laboratories will modify something to make it safer, probably we will get requirements from them. So, we can not start a production before knowing what we have to produce and how we have to produce it, so we have to wait a little bit.”

“But we are already making the robots etc, we have started our software service to the robots to save money and, of course, we will have to make adjustments when we have the directions of the certificators.”

So, for all the people who need to know, when Mr. Rossi says “We are already manufacturing the line of production“, that means the factory is being stocked with the machines that will manufacture the E-Cats. In other words, no E-Cats are yet being manufactured yet, only the robotic lines are being installed, and the software programmed.

Cold Fusion Now is currently preparing to go back on the road, heading due West to the edge the North American continent. We apologize to readers for the lack of transcript, but that’s the way the tire rolls.

We thank Mr. Rossi for his time, DJ Le SPAM and SPAM Allstars for their music and support of new energy, and all the artists, musicians, and inventors who, in the face of hostility, continue to pursue their vision of a new arrangement for living in peace on planet Earth.

Cold Fusion Now!

Top